Taproot Church

I agree… A lot of the time when I talk to another Christian, who is frustrated with having a nation that is based off of capitalism, they blame the government for their lack of response to the poor. When you look at it in the light that peoples’ hearts have to be changed and that the government can’t do that for them things begin to make sense.

Although, I disagree with most of the above blog on Elections, Politics, God, Etc… keeping my “cool”, I would like to focus on the statement made that a Bible-believing Christian could have a good reason to vote for Barack Obama. For starters, read Proverbs 6:16-19. Any candidate that supports the murder of unborn children to the degree that Senator Obama has, is only qualified to serve as President of two organizations: Planned Parenthood and NARAL. He is not morally or politically qualified to serve as President of the United States of America!

A hearty Amen to Karen’s response! As Christians we have the privilege and duty to vote for those who will govern. Obama’s stance on abortion is in direct opposition to God’s word. How then, could a true believer cast a vote for such a one who blatantly disregards the sanctity of life? The following quote from NATO Sec. General, 10/12/1957, applies to the outcome of our recent election: “We do not want another Committee; we have too many already. What we want is a man of sufficient stature to hold the allegiance of all people, and to lift us out of the economic morass into which we are sinking. Send us such a man, and be he god or devil we will receive him.” An earthly man is not the answer, the man we await is the Lord from heaven!

Karen & Marie–

I’d like to thank you so much for your responses! I’m so glad to get a little discussion going…

It’s hard for me to see how Christians are obligated to narrow their political choices down to one solitary issue. There are Bible believing Christians who would not vote Republican b/c of war and the death penalty–what do you think they think of us “pro-life” people? I don’t agree with pacifists, but I do not doubt their security in Christ. I think we have to allow our brothers and sisters to be wrong, and still give them full respect and dignity.

It’s unfortunate that we live in a society where the sancity of those in the womb is not recognized. But we won’t change hearts be being condemning and shrill, rest assured of that. We need to be winsome and loving and know that is God who changes hearts.

The crux of our question in reference to government, politics, and the Kingdom of God seems to be “how influential should the Christian world view upon the governmental systems of the world be?” Maybe it could be asked this way, “How much of a biblical world view does God will to be influencing fallen world systems and fallen men who are not regenerated and how hard should a Christian push and preach that his/her world view should be the law of all humanity through humanities’ laws?”

One point of deep meditation that I’ve been wrestling through for months and years now is that the passages that tell Christians to submit to government and honor the emperors were instructing the faith communities who were under demon-possessed Caesars like Nero. In light of that there is some really tough questions that are raised. Read Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17 and imagine that our President was sending soldiers into our homes to gather our families and burn them on stakes in his gardens and throw them into pits covered in slaughtered lambs skins to be torn alive by wolves. It really sheds some embarrassing light on how spoiled we are as American Christians brought up in a free world.

The church has divided over this question since the Reformation. For example the Anabaptists, Quakers, and an assortment of other sectarian groups determined that Christians should have nothing to do with the systems and governments of the world and established reclusive enclaves as best they could while walling themselves off from any sort of interaction with the world and it’s ways. In contrast many of the later Reformers taught that it was a means of spreading the Kingdom via government and Christian influence through fallen systems.

Bear in mind none of these folks lived under a system as wonderfully blessed as the United States democracy. The rumblings are simply a reawakening of an age old debate between bible-believing Christians with different philosophies of Kingdom spreading.

The left is tired of Christians trying to establish morality through legislation and Christian politicians and essentially is moving towards a stand back and out of the system perspective. The right is appalled that a Christian could over look egregious sins approved by a particular politician in the name of furthering other Kingdom ideals that he/she does not see in the opposing party.

As I write this I’m convinced that we must be very careful about drawing lines in the sand over political positions and make sure that our beach head is a Kingdom focus. The line can and will be drawn philosophically, i.e. we should push further into government and influence it as much as possible or we should retreat completely and stay away but we must do it as Christians together.

My friends that voted for Obama will be in heaven with Jesus and my friends that voted for McCain will be in heaven as well.

Marie and Karen I appreciate your heart felt concern for our babies in this country and I echo your heart completely. I just pray that this blog post could be a starting place where we would remember who we are warring against (Satan and demons), and who we war alongside. (Christians who love Jesus)

One other thought I just had since you guys got me thinking. (;

If we are to establish our vote on how “righteous” a particular politician is in accordance with Biblical morality shouldn’t that gauge be across the whole spectrum.

What I mean is this, and I think I’m truly asking to see what you guys all say because I’m at a loss. Most Christians (myself included) didn’t vote for Obama because of his stance on abortion. I just couldn’t do it in good conscience. With that said though why wouldn’t my conscience be just as deeply pricked voting for a man who shows signs of greed, has told lies, gets drunk occasionally, maybe has or had a subscription to Playboy?

My question/point being this. Abortion is horrible and if an unbeliever can’t see that it’s murder he is no different then the next man who can’t see that telling lies, getting drunk, and watching porn is against God’s will as well. I’m not lessening the appalling nature of abortion rather I’m trying to get us to see the appalling nature of all sin in the Bible and get Christians thinking about that as well. If we won’t vote for Obama because of his position on abortion then we surely should be just as appalled if McCain was to put back a few to many shots at an after rally party and imagines another woman while in bed with his wife.

Do you see the hard place we put ourselves when our standards of “righteousness” are superimposed upon candidates verses God’s actual standard of righteousness?

Please push back hard on this because the trajectory I just set is damnably scary if thought out reductio ad absurdum.

Love you all

This may be a little off topic but I cant help but realize how much we all base some sin as worse than other sin. Why do we view abortion as worse than drunkenness, lying, lust etc…

I’ve a few thoughts on the whole subject. It’s something I’ve been wrestling with for many years. I have close friends from the whole political spectrum, all of whom love Jesus and desire deeply to glorify God in their lives. The perspective of European Christians is by and large VERY different from that of American Christians.
One conclusion that I’ve reached on the issue is that there seems to be a clear difference between the way the Bible treats issues of sin in reference to time and eternity. Specifically what I mean is that it is clear in biblical revelation that there is a fundamental equality of sins- “He who has broken one point of the law has broken the whole law.” That is, from an eternal perspective, lust is as evil as adultery.
In time however God deals with things differently. Using the example above, if I have sex with a woman who is not my wife my wife is free to divorce me. There is no biblical indication that the same is true when we lust.
Another example- if I murder someone the civil authority has the duty to punish me. The same is not true when I am angry with someone (good thing!). But both are equally damnable in God’s eyes.
One last example from the Old Testament law. If I stole somthing and was caught I had to repay the owner with interest. If I murdered someone I was to be put to death. Both theft and murder are damnable in God’s eternal eyes, but he deals with them differently in relation to temporal justice.
On that basis I would say that there can be a biblically valid difference in how we measure the sins of our political leaders when considering them for public office. Condoning or supporting murder (abortion) is more serious, on a temporal level, than many other sins.
Anyway, just some thoughts on the matter to add to the debate.